May 24, 1995
Richard Reiman, Teleshuttle
William Devine, Intelink-on-a-Stick, Mitre
Rick Stump, USGS
Cross platform for imagery -UI, build interface, effective presentation, very quickly
Mike Martin, JPL
CD-ROM of conference proceedings
Not all so simple
Licensing issues, Bob Wertz, USGS
Copyright permission to publish
Richard Reisman, Teleshuttle
Bill Devens, Intelink-on-a-Stick
Seemless distribution of documentation by network, CD-ROM, printed page.
Thank's Mike
See if I can get this started
[Astound presentation]
[Standing room only]
One issue with CD rom production is dealing with different problems such as machines used for displays here. You may have Mac or workstation. With CD ROM, will everyone have access easily?
Mosaic on CDROM - multiplatform capabilities
Richard P. Stumpf
U.S. Geological Survey
SIGCAT May 1995
Why Mosaic?
Mosaic is the standard browser for the Internet
Key - exes for many platforms
Windows, Mac, UNIX and X-Windows - SUN, Silicon Graphics, Data General
Immediate potential to handle all these platforms.
Intercompatibility between CDROM and internet, links and pointers to Internet IF user has Internet access.
Mosaic on CD does NOT require internet access.
Some other issues:
Hypertext capability, navigation is easy, quick movement around
Moasic is graphic - can integrate graphic materials into text.
(Any use of product names does not constitue endoresemnt)
CDROM and the Internet
Time-series imagery
Satellite data, imagery over 3 year period of Gulf of Mexico, you will add to it over time
CDROM gives you one point. If someone wants most recent, you need to grab that, the connection is important
Mosaic Disadvantages
- licensing and Distribution - Mike / Rob Wertz
a lot of chaos right now
- PC installation problematic
- Mac requies multisession CDR
- formatting limitations
NCSA - National Center for Supercomputing Applications
last fall, licensed commercial to spyglass
whole wrinkle in this whole thing
preview
PCs installation is problematic.
We had to write installation script which works well on most machines. ON the PC you have to set up a whole series of things. Scripts can be written, but there are a few issues there.
The Mac side, if you do not have multisession, because of the file structure for the icon / file structure on the Mac you need multisession. In our office, CDR is on workstation, can't do Mac. Must go to HQ. Not a major issues. Most CDR
Excuse me - NOT multisession - HYBRID
The last is some formatting limitations. Mosaic has some really nice text handling. You can't put a Tab in right now. Not major.
Mosaic uses HTML, this allows Hyper Text, you can click, connect to another resource. When the HTML document is written, they identify a resouce. You can inclue images in document or via separate viewers. HTML can be like ASCII - If on Windows, Mac or Workstation it is graphical.
Formatting capability, nice job, could have some more work.
MS Word can export to HTML format. without having to program in it.
I talk about cross platform, I'd like to show you what that means. This is the Home Page, what the CD looks like when it comes up. On a Workstation, this is what it looks like. But basically, this is the appearance. With Moasic you have naviagatio ncapabilities. On Mac, this iwhat it looks like. Same CD. All developed on UNIX workstation. Standard .EXE, put them on for the other platforms.
And the last is a PC, again the same capability. This one was sort of fun because I had not popped one into a PC before. I last Friday, put it in, read it
Q: How long?
No time at all.
I've touched on what goes on. This is the bottom half of the home page. This is a hypertext table of contents. If you move your mouse and click. ON the the internet is someplace else, who knows where.
As you go down the menu, there are disclaimers and that sort of thing.
As an example, if you clicked on technical information, I've set up the toc as hypertext, if you click there, it drops you to that point in the file.
I've also included hypertext for things such as references.
You can merege text and images in the document. I have a turorial showing what's going on.
A slightly different type of impage, but it allows you that blending of text an dimages.
This allows some user training. People who get CD may not know how to interpret satellite imagery.
Similarly, I can also bring tou examples of interesting events. I bring that up. If someone wants more images, they can click and see whole series from that time peroid.
In Navigations, simple menu.
In terms of imagery, you clidk. See two types. If you want the North - Central Gulf of Mexico. 5 variables. Things ocenographers like.\
Pick a year. Skip through. End with a series of dates.
As part of navigation, we can write in previous month, next month.
There are 1200
We wrote scripts to produce all the files.
When you go to impages, you can put images in docs, but you can also use a viewer for images.
Issues
PC installation
- compex for inexperienced users
- installation program is possible
- WIN32S (32-ibt interpreter) is problem
Mosaic thinks in 32bit. MS WIN32S - MS doesn't include that, but most mfgs do put that on.
We have an install program that works correctly with INSTALL
Licensing.
Strengths
Multi - cross platform capability. We did this on UNIX, Mac and Unix installs easy to do.
Combine text, graphics
Approach
More sophisticated viewers (NOT person looking at CD ...)
PCI - freeware cross platform viewre
ArcView - earlier versions appearing
Imagewors
HTML - cost issues. HTML WWW Browsers could be free.
Q: PC Installation - how specific is that?
No. Most of it could be used by anyone. The viewers would be a minor switch. It would give any developer a leg up.
Q: How big are images?
GIF, compressed TIFF - full size image half meg
Q: Any compuserve/UNISYS problem?
If NON profit, no problem.
= Mike Martin. OK, I'm going to talk about IGAR
This Astound program has astounded me.
IGARSS94
Never do a conference CD ROM.
This is the hardest thing.
1100 abstracts. Planned to do full text search with WAIS. Idea was to have it on Internet.
720 papers were actually approved. Use Adobe Acrobat for paper viewer. Very nice.
We made mistate of asking people for postscript files. 130 out fo 300 worked. 60 more recovered with great effort.
We also had several hunderd WP files and we allowed the authors to submit - turned out to be useful this hlep e to use other tools.
Main thing - use of WAIS. It worked great on the server. Authors could come in, look at papers, submit. The other thing was the way it organized. We developed Perl script with papers in subdirectories, generated HTML.
10's and 20's of papers coming it. Constantly updating but keeping it on line to evaluate.
We had this doc online, In order to make CD ROM we used Fetch. One thing immediately, resoucre information not present on UNIX., so this must be provided. Fetch can be taught, based on extention of file, to add resource. The nubmer of times you do this, it is important to automate it. We did this 20 times in developing CD
On PC you don't have to worry about that.
Hybrid with ISO 9660 with MAC HFS and JVC Personal Rommaker.
This is a beautiful example of compatibility.
I am going to suggest next year we do all HTML instead of Astound.
Something bad has happened to my directory structure here (tiny image)
IGARRS .PDF - giant file and then below that, folders including papers, software, and utility HTML files.
In the papers folder, 1000s we broke in 100 papers perr subfolder, directory for each paper.
We kind of dumped everything author provided in that folder.
Problems:
We had hoped to use WAIS. Having a public domain full text retirevla system is a very valuable thing. I've looked at the commercial products, everybody has all their own ideas. Cross platform doesn't alwasy work. We prototyped the MAc, and it worked. But when we got down to the CD, we didn't have the peope to test it. 100s of hours of work needed. FIRS test, each ting, figure to
Work around. Many text retrievel asystem - author, topic, paper number, that's what I need. We build special indexes with WAIS. Organized main key workds, author name.
One thing I can't emphasize too much is SIMPLE very few commands, so it is easy to get up and publish.
OK, I think some of these may have been covered:
Mosiac on PC is problem. Installing dummy software was difficutl
Beta CD on July 4, nobody could install on Windows. Out of 10.
1 on Mac, 1 on UNIX
Made much better docs after that
Trouble with Mosaic launching helper apps. No one has documented this.
Helpers are different on platforms.
NASA view - same helper on all platforms.
Hard enough
LView on PC
JPEG veiw on a Mac
XView on UNIX
this is a problem
More consistent cross platform helper
This is a faithful presentaion of the written proceedings. 100s - maybe 200 are excellent examples of electronic publishing . This is a bonus. These are color. At least a glipse of what we can be doing
Problem with version 1 of Acrobat, ATM Adobe Type Manager, frantic call from scientist in Canada, all his docs came out looking strnage. Adobe fonts put in place of his font. I could see the lawsuit coming.
Finally, a mention of design. You can design for both CD and Internet. CD ROM is faster than Internet 10 - 100K On the CD, was put on the net. Was up for a few months, not problem until IEEE found out it was there.
Q: For uninitiated, what is IGARSS?
International Geoscience and Remote Sensing Symposium
Q: With WAIS server were you going to put search engine on CD ROM for each platform?
YES. Time consuming and difficult.
You have to understand how much full text retrieval a user needs.
I use computer select. I just use 1 or 2 word search
Q: the resources required to use search engine. Equivalent to Mosaic?
That would be added to what you need.
Q: Do I understand your work around - key word? depends on librarian?
Yes.
There was some search with Acrobat, but there was a limitation there.
U.S. Gelogical Survey
Licensing for CD and the Internet
From first two talks, this a a wonderful bringing together of two technologies. We started dev process What do we need to do. It was wonderful. We had Web tools, in perftect combinatoin. We had platform independance. This helped out our foffics. Standard formatting
So what we're left with is a series of browsers. This would be perfect.
Freely available, not availabe for free.
Accommodated difference betwwen local and remote access.
Numerous development efforts. We needed to go this way.
UNTIL ...
I began looking at how we place these items on there. We are dealing with two different worlds. As I began talking to developers.
There are rules of thumb. These are compplementary technogies. This is intellectual property. We have to be careful of this. Public domain is still alive and well.
complementary tech
CD ROM AND Internet - NOT identical media types.
Why it it differ. From legal perspective, different. From standpoint of existing agreements, two separate
Copyright - most products have a copyright REGARDLESS of statement. A minor distinction but STILL a copyright.
Creators who make a living on products they create
You would be reducing their revenues.
Free distributions can still infringe on copyright.
I am putting out a piece of software not charging, still denying others.
We can put this into a series of caveats
- look for documentation to say "You are free to distribute this" to find out what possiblities are
- get permission from the author. a few calls will get you there
- Web browsers need a few extra calls. Here is my verbal permission
line that stays "Reproduced with permission"
Authors and folks concerned what it is you are charging for when you sell your CD
this is more issue for feds
paperwork reduction act
OMB circular - some policy
Are you distributing this for free - absolutely $0
Or cost of mfg and distribution - feds can do this. OMB cicrcular says we can do this
Cost recovery - sufficient to recoup cost of actual data collection - watch yourselves on this.
You need to tell people you are doing this. Your software vendor will be less interested if you are making a profit.
Public domain is alive and well
THIS PRODUCT HAS BEEN PLACED IN THE PUBLIC DOMAIN.
you can change 1 line of code and stamp your name on it.
It will go onto CD without much of hassle at all.
Rules of Thumb
Complementary - still a distinction
Copyright Issues
get permission
Public Domain - still viable
That is what you go through when you put software on CD ROM.
What we went though
Looked at Internet - found two products. Really great browsers. Netscape and Mosaic playing leapfrog. We will hopefully see this continue.
Distinctions - Netscape - commercial from ground up -
original was Mosaic NCSA developed at U of Illinois, - took themselves out, former chief of Silicon Graphics, to make Web navigatior - no question, a commerical product. They own the copyright. After speaking to 3-4 people at Netscape for what you are trying to do
1,000 copies
$23 per CD
Beacuse I am placing a copy of Netscape Navigator on the CD, it is free and clear for the user of that to surf the net. They were not prepared to do restricted licensing. Same as putting it on floppy in a "How to Surf" book. They were not really prepared to talk about how to help Feds. They are interested in profits.
Mosaic is slightly different, more convoluted history. NCSA - copyright. Mosaic is freely available on the Internet. The one problem - we can't handle the licensing load. We are spending too much time on legal ramifications. Internet becoming more commercial - wise to put it out.
Licensed to Master licenser - Spygalss - who sublicensed
Since now we are dealing with relicensing you have to wind your way through several people
Rate from Spyglass - 50 cents per disc for 1700 for IGARSS
number of possibilities with Mosaic - different price range, where product came from
Maybe time to negotiate as a group, as SIGCAT
Right now, still talking to them. Bring costs down even further.
Where are we going. Mosiac in particular. We could license a commercial product. You could - realize, you will pay. Do you want to recoup those costs back in.
You can develop public domain browsers. You could end up getting into pretty extensive development effort. Mosaic code is in the public comain. Take Moasic code, compile it specifically for CD, not interfering with any Internet CD ROM. We are still looknig at that.
We'll have to keep you posted.
Since HTML, GIF are all standard. It is the users responsiblity to obtain their own browser, why transfer additional costs for somthing they already have.
Summary:
Licensing of common internet tools for use on CDROM is still in flux. 2 cents not there now.
Ad hoc basis. New idea to many folks. Hopefully they've had enough phone calls to decide who it is that deals with this.
With commercial ventures, will be commercial licensing issue. Next big tech push will be from commercial marketplace. Only thing now is to stay tuned.
Q: How recent were Netscape negotiations?
I actually started out with Netscape in last 6 weeks.
I wouldn't want to call them negotiations, just phone calls, inquiries. That was the price for the quantities. Restricted? Their legal department was too overworked. It may be that it's changed.
Q: Do you have a law background?
I am figuring this out the hard way.
Out there on the Internet are primers from Cornell and other places about intetellectual property rights. Actually quite lucid. It helps you a great deal to know the "why" of the commercial side.
I am an information resource manager.
Q: How may people to make use of information on disc require browser on disc?
55% of audience already has browser.
Q: Have you approached GSA for contract?
Not yet. I have not. Small scale. I don't have authority,.. Iw ill gho up thorug
GSA is in business for large scale contract.
I would thk that would be wise. My understaind is thate every brureay has a different pricing policiy on thie CD ROMs. Differenct cost recovery mecahnisms. People making money off this want their share. We awnt repoduction. Burure by bure on large scale.
= Richard Reisman - Teleshuttle
I want to take a slightly different view. CD ROM and online in general.
Teleshulttle has fairly unique, simple general approach.
Hypbirds of CD and online
have been two independant paths.
CD ROM chaep flex, lots of capacity - frozen in time
ONline - very much up to the minute, relatively costly , complicated, and restricted, business pricing problem
Hybrids - you can get best of both. Use local resource as much as you want., make sparing use of reomote resources.
Given that this is simple and obvious - why not done?
Different skill sets, very different. Individuals who have competence in both.
We tried to put toegher in simple way
you look for simple boundary - decouple them.
Design a very simple interface bewteeen local and remote aplications
Searching interface on CD
any local app can call to do network
app doesn't know about network, it uses transport. get rid of this file, give me this file. It just calls it
The essence is an app prog interface, makes it easy to develop any type of app.
Loose coupling to online - not extensive period on line. For dial up , that is a cost factor. Cost can be minimum, once a day, once a month for a few minutes, cost is modest.
Minimum demand. Control left with user, any browser, really a local app with network capabilites.
No subscription problems
From operational - we can provide backend. license sever operations - BBS type of technology, easy
Interfacting to online servies
Really important - works with today's infrastructure - don't need anything but modem. - not service providers
The sturcture of transporter is youf local app figures out from interaction what information it wants to recieve , send in. it builds manifest list, calls module, conects to server, settings correspond to user. know which files should be available run throug manifest, transfer files, returns control when done. Local app presents with browser and navigators - could be Moasic, doctored a little to call our interface. We could have Web browser.
Examples:
Weekly magazine - instead of disk very week
Commercial
information on demand
Catalog ordering - orders coming this way
This is probably the first disc to go out using this.
A WHO disc 50MB of Folio Views - international digest of Health legislation
Using the SDK we've built a module that just drops into the standard Views environment.
Simply click update, it lauches our module and I'm not online here, so I get a message.
I have a simulation. You would get connection to server, identiy user, we get the files that are the update, gives them a message capabilty. an alert. We could have gone on from here. Click OK.
Open the update file.
Folio had shadow files - modifications on to the original - projects.
50K shadow file, comperssed to 10K, with modification
I can click into original material We have overlaid return link back. See update notes. Seamless search across original and update database. It highlights original AND New data.
I could be interspersing original and new data.
I don't know of anything else that does this off the shelf, but most can do this with customization , you have two indexs, you merge them.
The other simple control structure or more sophisticated
what you have already received.
pick what you want
what will be availalbe
Could be information on demand - long list of options, you click, get those.
That is an example of the kind of thing we see doing.
And just emphasize it is a simple interface, buttons, Director, look and feel is up to product dveloper. Fetch is automatic. No limits on application function. Low cost from quick connections.
To relate to internet
2 aspect
Internet is transport mech - cheap powerful, for people who don't have it hurdle to install
$20 per month even for limited dial up access. Mass market will be a long time before a majority have access. Very limited.
We are planning to use FTP to get this. Same interface, just select or automatic - if internet there, it uses it.
Way to get best of both
Other - the Web, viewing environment
Nice hypertext
limitations with graphics, search
high end publishers don't have options they want
We can certainly use HTLM if that is what people want. Will develop for off the shelf use.
On a perspective:
Hierarchical Peer to peer
Local only
Local - loosly couples
Network centered
browse
none
all above
browse
chat
more complex to right and down
in time will move in both directions.
online is moving more toward local capabilty.
1 Updates and information on demand
2 responses
Issues in integration
app design - what browsers /serach customized
very high end graphic things, using Director - blockbuster guide to videos - c++ interface
other end of spectrum from WHO applcation
and you can even do logic,
sports discs
financials with calcs
communcations is of course important
if on web you can igonre it sort of
if dial up - we pretty much want to do this for you OR you license and take on burden
develop software and set up
operations and support is demanding
We provide
software,
operations service
shield publishers from difficulty of doing themselves
Comparing benefits
hybirds
you can build your own hybrid, but it is more work in comm area.
We are also working on partnerships to round out solution
We are an enabler - not disc procduers ourselves.
We are also working with poeple who do search tools.
Electronic book
others
open to VARS who may want to operate a server themselves.
business opp there.
discussing with major online network. - front end to their back end We would provide standard interface to Compuserve, AOL or Prodigy OR in-house.
Basically our role is middleware - apps - Teleshuttle - networks
Now:
Developing
new networks
packages integration
Local media will never die
- free bandwidth and Parkinson's law
- cheap media and Moore's Laws
cheaper faster
- Seymor Cray, speed of light and caches
light is slow - make stuff close
- production learning curves
very important - exists, widespread hard to compete with it - magnetic still here
- own than rent
video tapes despite pay per view
Q: Knight Ridder? Copyright?
NOT Open access to any server for any content. Access to predefined materials related to customer. Preset arrangement. With Blockbuster disk, credit card process before download.
We don't let you get anything.
Q: Compression/ Decompression - major updates - your product would need to do this.
Yes. doing it now. Work with publisher for compression and even encryption. Done on product oriented basis.
Publisher would load in compressed form on the server.
Q: Do you have a booth?
No, I will be here today.
CD ROM DOD Intelligence Information System.
Intelink on a Stick
either like it or hate it
The DOD Intell - specific for UNIX - isolate the root sytem.
On a stick - portable -down in the trences. 56KB marines
A popsicle, cotton candy
Take it anywhere
Being in military - we have mission CDROM as a complementary dissemination medium
IN DOD - we want to get out
multimedia
phots databases
Users
national
Theatre
tactical
To get national t3 - they dont need CD
t1 some cD ROM
to the tactical level - 9.6 or less. CD ROM gives them primary source
KEY - publishign efficiency
I have just enought ot do hard copy.
people
Govt must publish on papre, CDROM and internet. All three - is what this is all about
Booklike portability - Macs UNIX DOS Windows, Windows NT - must support all
Prepositoined information - bandkwidthe needed for update - new info
Advangates of digital products. - fulltext search and retrieval
Users don't jsut read - recongifure infor fo rgenter - reuse the compontente - ok to review it, but desn't allow you to resue graphics.
COST - front end all publising - unlimited rntime license arragnemetn.
Users:
Survey of 153
Many stil on DOS and Winodws
Emphais wil be windows.
HTML like Web -
Inernt is spread out - Arkansas, CA, using URLs
In inteligence - T72 tank in Charlottesville, Migs 22 at Wright PAttersron, all need to pull together.
If you've seen HTML - not full composition - but useable.
With WEB
1 - evolve with global comunity
one step prodcut publishing
inexpensive - using public domain software as much as possible
cdroms ready for HTTP server
More common interface - netscape or Maosic - becuase of cost mosaic.
Product Maaping
Componetns under TOC -> Product
Distributed physically, to CD ROM direcotry.
URLS Uniform Resource Locators
Point now to path names.
UNIX community OS move to ISO 9660
CD RO HOME PAGE
Publication list
Full text serach and retrieve
Set preference - 386 - just text driven menus
Exit CDROM
Install - bring up software from CD
UNINSTALL
CD Directory
Root
readme file
CDROM Home page
Index of product
full text serach of graphics - link to graphic
OS support - under Windows.
Browser
Index Interface
Install
Unistall
Additonal viewers - video or sound
Product
HTML
GIF
JPEC
others
Notional SW Concept (as publisher)
fill shell
3 engineers wil do this in next 6 months.
T is text
P is picutre
D database
S sound
V video
numbered files
V(size). number
Retainlink,
edit source
accept?
able to cull item by item
HTML will web across everywhere.
3 phased approach
back up to HTML Home page
Full text for Windows and NT.
Develop notional software.
Q: have you been looking outside?
Freeways is working with NCSA to accommodate us. We are working as a community here.
Will be freely available on government side, should be available to commercial side too.
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